“Maybe Oasis can support Grinderman if we reform when we’re 80!”
Warren Ellis has spoken to NME about life in The Bad Seeds, working through hard times with Nick Cave to create new album ‘Wild God‘, the upcoming Death Of Bunny Munro adaptation, and the chances of the return of Grinderman.
Ellis has been a core member of The Bad Seeds since 1997, as well as working as Cave’s main musical collaborator on film soundtracks and beyond for the last two decades. They also released the acclaimed album ‘Carnage‘ together under their own banner in 2021.
Last week saw the release of The Bad Seeds’ 18th album ‘Wild God’, on the weekend that was dominated by the pandemonium for Oasis reunion tickets – not that Ellis was part of it.
“Oh, what’s happening?” he told NME, unaware of the news. He didn’t try and join the Ticketmaster queue then?
“I didn’t! So that’s a couple of extra tickets that are available!”
Still, Ellis said that he did have a big gig in mind for the Gallagher brothers. Read our full interview below to find out what, along with the musician telling us about being a rock for his friend Cave, starting a wildlife sanctuary under the advice of Red Hot Chili Peppers‘ Flea, and if we might see more from side-project Grinderman.
NME: Hi Warren. So you weren’t a Britpopper back in the day then?
Warren Ellis: “No, I was on a different sort of drugs in the ‘90s!”
How’s your summer been?
“It’s been really busy, but lovely. I was on tour in Australia with Dirty Three, I did a soundtrack for a Brazilian film directed by Walter Salles [I’m Still Here], then went out to Melbourne for a documentary about the animal sanctuary I founded called Ellis Park. Now I’m getting ready to get in the studio and whip up a storm on the ‘Wild God’ tour!”
How are you finding life split between being one of the Dirty Three, a Bad Seed, a film score composer and an animal carer?
“It’s great! It’s kind of like being in The Wrath Of God, you know that film by Werner Herzog? It’s exciting. I keep doing what I’m doing, things keep evolving, and that feels really good.”
Do you feel differently about life now that you have Ellis Park there and you’re giving something back?
“I wasn’t aware of the effect that it would have on me. This development led to this community springing up around it. All of the people that followed my music became engaged in it. It’s been lovely to see the music side spill into the park.
“I was thinking to do it during the lockdown. I’m really good friends with Flea from Red Hot Chili Peppers, and he’s done really good things in opening a school in Silver Lake, so I called him and said, ‘I’m thinking of opening up this sanctuary’. He just said, ‘Maaaan, you gotta do it – it will open your heart to something you didn’t believe it was imaginable! I totally encourage and implore you to do it!’ He was right. I didn’t think of getting anything back from it. It has changed my life and had a really profound effect on me.”
Has Flea adopted a monkey?
“Flea has been amazing. He’s been such a huge support, as have a lot of people I work with. Nick’s been amazing, too – we built the school and hospital there [at Ellis Park]. It’s been lovely to realise that I’m surrounded by so many great people.”
Nick has said a lot about being more connected to others and less shackled by grief now after the death of his sons Arthur and Jethro, while ‘Wild God’ seems to show signs of letting the light in. How do you feel about life in that aspect, and what’s it been like to be part of that process as a friend and a songwriter?
“Clearly, Nick has a very personal slant on these records – particularly the last few. They have been very different to anything he’s ever done. He’s lost two of his kids; that’s something I could never understand. I’ve been around him when it’s happening and made the records with him, but I’ve never had something like that happen to me.
“All that I could do was go in and work with him on the records. You wade in and do what you can, and try to do the right thing by the person. The best that you can do is to be there. It’s been a real privilege to have been involved in those records and to be with Nick. ‘Ghosteen’ [2019] was such an ambitious record and a very particular record. All the talk of ‘the light’ is directly following Nick’s lead.
“When we sat down at the start of last year, we’d just done a big festival run, the Bad Seeds were back together, and we’d played these really transcendental shows – they were really ecstatic at times. There was a real feeling that we wanted the music to move in that way. It’s really been driven by how Nick has been feeling.”
And what was the genesis of this album?
“When we started up and had Tommy [Wydler] on the drums and Colin Greenwood [Radiohead] on bass, we got in there and started improvising. Anything that sounded like ‘Ghosteen’, we moved away from. Anything that sounded like what would become ‘Wild God’, we moved towards. There was definitely a desire to make something that had energy.
“‘Ghosteen’ wasn’t able to carry the weight of the Bad Seeds and needed to be what it is, as did ‘Skeleton Tree’. This record felt like we were ready to embrace the energy of the music that you hear.”
How would you describe the energy in the studio this time?
“After the events that happened to Nick, you’d turn up to make a record, you don’t know what it’s going to be, you sit down and hopefully something happens. It’s very different when somebody is going through such a devastating thing. For someone where creativity has been such a large part of their life, it all rolls into one another and you enter unknown territory. This stuff is bigger than all that. It’s like nothing else I’ve experienced in my life. That made making these records so different to before. Things had a different importance that couldn’t help but be directed by what happened.”
There are lesser acts out there who’d be looking to recapture the magic of old classics like ‘Red Right Hand’ or ‘Into My Arms’…
“The Bad Seeds have never been about that. Before I was in the band, that’s what I found so amazing about them. I was a fan before, and I just never knew what they were going to do next. As a listener, they weren’t treating you with disdain – they were challenging you. I grew up listening to jazz and David Bowie, and you never knew what Bowie was going to do. When he made ‘Low’, I was just a kid thinking, ‘What the fuck is this?’ It made me curious; it made me wonder why this person and this creative that I thought so highly of would do this.
“I remember when [Brian] Eno put out ‘Here Come The Warm Jets’, I had a listen then took it back because I thought, ‘This isn’t for me’ – now it’s one of my favourite records. I was always intrigued by people that challenged you, and that’s what I loved about The Bad Seeds. When [previous band] The Birthday Party imploded and ‘From Her To Eternity’ appeared, I was just flabbergasted. I was really amazed by that record, and then every subsequent record after that seemed to challenge themselves. The Bad Seeds have always been operating like that.”
What does Colin Greenwood bring to the table?
“Marty [P Casey, bassist] was in Perth and we were trying to go into the studio to try and work out some new material. Colin was around and in the same city as us. We’d toured with him on ‘Carnage’ in Australia, and it was just so easy to bring him in for a few days as he was so close. He has this beautiful and melodic way of playing. He and Marty share bass duties on the record, but Colin is a very different player. They both have these styles of playing. Unfortunately, Marty can’t do the tour and Colin’s available, so that’s great for us.”
We interviewed Nick last year and asked about the chances of a Grinderman reunion. He said that there was no reason why not, as you were more of an improv outfit, but that it would have to be less of a raucous rock’n’roll affair. Where do you stand on that?
“I’d never say never! But we better bloody get on with it. The average age of us is about 100 now. Look, it constantly runs around and comes up in conversation every once in a while. There seems to be much more love for Grinderman now than when we were around! I wouldn’t be against it; it was so enjoyable. We’ve got to get this record out of the way, then maybe when we’re 80? Maybe we could double up with Oasis and maybe they could support us? Maybe Oasis can support Grinderman if we reform when we’re 80!”
Are you and Nick involved much in the adaptation of Cave’s 2009 novel Death Of Bunny Munro starring Matt Smith? Are you making the music for it?
“Yes, we are. I don’t know if I’m meant to say that. Nick’s been involved in overseeing it in some capacity, just looking on. We are doing the music for it. That might be the chance for a bit of the old Grinderman, maybe!
“That was the moustache that changed the course of history! I miss that. When I see photos of Nick from then, I’m like, ‘There’s my man’. That was a great look. I don’t think he’s ever looked more evil; it was fabulous. That’s when you know – when the moustache appears!”
The book was written and came out around the same time as ‘Dig, Lazarus Dig!!!’ and the Grinderman records. Do you think the music will be mining a similar area?
“It may well do, yeah! I’ll send Nick a text saying, ‘The guy from NME wants Grinderman to get back together, he’s heartbroken, he couldn’t get tickets for Oasis, so let’s get back together when we’re 80 and offer Oasis the support act in Pompeii or Slane Castle or something’. I’m writing that text now.”
‘Wild God’ by Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds is out now. The band kick off a UK and European tour at the end of September. Visit here for tickets and more information.
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